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Goodbye DVDs & BDs : Studios selling movies on flash dri
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mavericko
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Goodbye DVDs & BDs : Studios selling movies on flash dri Reply with quote

Quote:
Kingston Digital, Inc., the Flash memory affiliate of Kingston Technology Company, Inc., the independent world leader in memory products, today announced it has joined with Paramount Digital Entertainment (PDE), a division of Paramount Pictures, to deliver full-length motion picture feature films on Kingston® Flash memory products. The movies on Kingston memory will be available to consumers as part of a bundle package and for sale.


Source : http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/paramount-digital-entertainment-and-kingston-digital-join-to-deliver-movies-via-flash-memory-68570482.html
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Sauron_Daz
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A great way to circumvent Blue Ray royalties to Sony!
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Shades
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, if only flash devices with that much capacity were more affordable (now).

BTW, when my gf bought a new mobile phone, it came with a movie on the bundled flash card.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Indeed, if only flash devices with that much capacity were more affordable (now).

Sauron_Daz wrote:
A great way to circumvent Blue Ray royalties to Sony!


Perhaps if blu-ray quality files are to be sold in this way..
ive no doubt they will eventually.. the question is the price of a good sized
flash memory today.

SDXC must be way cheaper than a USB flash memory.. so Im guessing this will be the target.

It doesn't mention quality or resolution of the movies anywhere..
im hoping for 1080p with 5.1 or 7.1 sound.. but it might be optimistic
perhaps they start slow with only dvd quality ??
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still have to pay the movie royalties though! Twisted Evil Laughing Sony Pictures remember.. so they get their damn royalties either from selling the movie itself, or the BluRay media it ships on ( not talking about USB thumb drives here obviously ).

Interesting idea...one could copy the movie to their hard drive ( unless copy protection prevents this ) , then delete it off the Kingston USB thumb drive and use it for other purposes... nice... Cool

BTW, my favourite USB thumb drive, the Uzi:



Some rap group is selling their new album exclusively on this Uzi shaped USB thumb drive, forget the artists name but the title of the album is "Uzi does it" ! Twisted Evil Laughing Laughing

Mebbe you will see a limited edition "Scarface BluRay Director's Cut" movie offered on a similarly shaped thumb drive from the studios in the future... lmao...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Original..the Uzi shaped USB drive..
I can see what drives the pr0n industry could come up with..Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammer_Time wrote:

Interesting idea...one could copy the movie to their hard drive ( unless copy protection prevents this ) , then delete it off the Kingston USB thumb drive and use it for other purposes... nice... Cool


Sounds like a not so smart idea.. having it on the thumb drive is an excellent backup plan in case of a hdd crash.. of course one shouldnt expect those, but also if they happend and you dont have the backup your screwed.

of course having the entire move collection on a single hdd for easy access is excellent.. but then just put the backups flash memories in a shoebox or something. Wink

thats the only good thing about physical media, you get a free backup!!

it they can't be copied to another drive because of drm then I think the format will fail until drm is either cracked or removed.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol yeah nice Uzi Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammer_Time wrote:
Interesting idea...one could copy the movie to their hard drive ( unless copy protection prevents this ) , then delete it off the Kingston USB thumb drive and use it for other purposes... nice... Cool


Not so fast... I recall Sandisk working on WORM (write once, read multiple) technology for flash drives specifically for this purpose. There are couple of issues here 1) how to DRM the media to prevent copying? 2) The Blu-Ray/DVD industry will not allow for a device to pick up demand or even support it to prevent competition before they have recovered their investments. 3) The cost - a Blu-Ray disk eventually will cost few cents but Flash drives for a while will still cost in dollars. 5) File System Support - They cannot rely on a FAT32 as it cannot hold a file of more than 4GB size - so this would limit the device use as a simple plug and play as we are used to with flash drives.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stupify wrote:
5) File System Support - They cannot rely on a FAT32 as it cannot hold a file of more than 4GB size - so this would limit the device use as a simple plug and play as we are used to with flash drives.


Well if they skip the USB version because of cost to have an unnececary contact wich will cost extra.. and move on to SDXC then all those new devices (possibly blu-ray players) wich will eventually be released to support the format would have to support the new filesystem wich ever is choosen.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
3) The cost - a Blu-Ray disk eventually will cost few cents but Flash drives for a while will still cost in dollars.
Quote:
5) File System Support - They cannot rely on a FAT32 as it cannot hold a file of more than 4GB size - so this would limit the device use as a simple plug and play as we are used to with flash drives.
1: die shrink, compression algorithm and an upscaler all available and all resolve current issues..... Flash Drives do not cost dollars..... I was getting flash drives for free and 2 gb ones sell on the street for $2.99 MSRP.

what does cost a cppl of dollars is Sony, Toshiba and Philips licensing for DVD or Blu ray.

2: break the movie into 2 files.... problem solved and a non issue given the seek time and read speeds available with flash.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but under XP the limation is actually 32 GB , to be precise here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314463

Limitations of the FAT32 File System in Windows XP ( During Install ) :

Quote:
You cannot format a volume larger than 32 gigabytes (GB) in size using the FAT32 file system during the Windows XP installation process. Windows XP can mount and support FAT32 volumes larger than 32 GB (subject to the other limits), but you cannot create a FAT32 volume larger than 32 GB by using the Format tool during Setup. If you need to format a volume that is larger than 32 GB, use the NTFS file system to format it. Another option is to start from a Microsoft Windows 98 or Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition (Me) Startup disk and use the Format tool included on the disk.



You can format up to 2 Terabytes using FAT32 under other OS

http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm
Quote:

FAT32:

32GB for all OS.

2TB for some OS


So worst case is 32GB , best case is 2 TB for FAT32 ( depends on which OS you are using ).

Quote:
FEATURES

FAT32 provides the below enhancements over previous implementations of the FAT file system:

Supports up to 2 terabytes in size


To touch briefly on exFAT ( basically "FAT64" - proprietary to MS and starting with Vista SP1... ) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT

Quote:
exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table, aka FAT64) is a proprietary, patent-pending[1] file system suited especially for flash drives, introduced by Microsoft for embedded devices in Windows Embedded CE 6.0, in their desktop operating systems Windows Vista Service Pack 1[3] and Windows 7, and in their server operating system Windows Server 2008[4].

exFAT can be used where the NTFS file system is not a feasible solution, due to data structure overhead, or where the file size or directory restrictions of previous versions of the FAT file system are unacceptable.


Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 (both x86 and x64) users can add support for exFAT by installing an update from Microsoft.[2] An experimental, open source Linux kernel module that supports the reading of exFAT files is currently under development.[5]. A closed source, read/write Linux driver, licensed and derived from the Microsoft exFAT driver, is available for purchase from Tuxera[6].


Quote:
The advantages over previous File Allocation Table (FAT) file system versions include:

* Scalability to large disk sizes: 64 ZB theoretical max, 512 TB recommended max, raised from the 32 GB maximum for new FAT32 partitions in Windows XP[2]

* Sector size between 29 (512) and 212 (4,096) bytes
* Cluster size up to 32 MiB[2]
* File size limit of 64 ZB (512 TB recommended max), raised from 4 GB in FAT32[2]
* Free space allocation and delete performance improved due to introduction of a free space bitmap
* Support for up to 2,796,202 files per directory,[1] increased from 65,536
* Support for access control lists (not supported yet in Windows Vista SP1)[7]
* Support for TFAT, a transactional file system standard (optionally WinCE activated function)
* Provision for OEM-definable parameters to customize the file system for specific device characteristics
* Support for UTC timestamps (starting with Vista SP2)[8]
* Timestamp granularity of 10 ms (better than previous FAT versions' 2 s, but worse than NTFS's 100 ns)[1]


So if they use FAT32 as the file system on the USB thumb drive, they are good for at least 32 GB worth of storage. If they want more, they could use exFAT ( 512 TB plus ) but that would lock out all the Win XP users out there ... 32 GB can store a whole BluRay movie in all its high-def glory though right? I understand the capacity of BR disk is 50 GB, but how many movies actually fill the whole 50 GB capacity of the BR disk?? Not that many.. I think the average BR movie is only around 25 GB or less ( for standard 1.5 hour movie, not 3 hour Titanics!! ) so 32 GB on the thumb drive is plenty of space. Of course, for those 3.5 hour marathon movies in full HD quality, you might need a bit more space.. but as others have mentioned, they might decide to use compression/decompression to squeeze it all on the 32GB formatted FAT32 USB thumb drive.. I think...or just use exFAT instead, and force the XP users to upgrade to Vista or W7!!! Twisted Evil Razz Laughing
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Shades
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammer_Time wrote:
.. but as others have mentioned, they might decide to use compression/decompression to squeeze it all on the 32GB formatted FAT32 USB thumb drive.. I think...or just use exFAT instead, and force the XP users to upgrade to Vista or W7!!! Twisted Evil Razz Laughing

Since early this year, exFAT has been available for XP as well: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/955704. When it comes to compression, modern video compression algorithms are pretty much state of the art, so more compression basically means lower quality. One chooses the tradeoff when one makes the compression (you all realise presumably that your video files are already compressed?). Still, one can attain reasonable quality with pretty small file sizes nowadays, thanks to modern compression algorithms (and the corresponding decompression stuff). BTW, there is a difference between max file-size and max volume-size (just to be nit picky).

Anyway, technical matters aside, bundling of movies on flash is already happening, as I indicated with the mobile phone example (it was a Sony Ericsson). I suspect that although the press-release mentioned selling movies on flash, that the initial application is more likely to primarily be a bundled movie when one is buying a flash device anyway: instead of just buying an empty device, throw in a movie as added-value. There is potential, but flash still seems too expensive (other difficulties aside) to be a primary distribution mechanism for full HD movies. For lower-quality stuff, maybe, but then one might as well buy the DVD, unless the movies are better quality than that.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Hammer_Time wrote:
.. but as others have mentioned, they might decide to use compression/decompression to squeeze it all on the 32GB formatted FAT32 USB thumb drive.. I think...or just use exFAT instead, and force the XP users to upgrade to Vista or W7!!! Twisted Evil Razz Laughing

Since early this year, exFAT has been available for XP as well: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/955704.


When I click on your link, I get this error message:

Quote:
Sorry, but we couldn't find the page that you requested.


Razz

But it is available here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/955704/en-us

( you cut off the "/en-us" at the end of your url, thats why it wouldn't work for me Confused )

Quote:
This article discusses the key features and benefits of the extended File Allocation Table (exFAT) file system drivers for Windows XP and for Windows Server 2003.

The exFAT file system is the successor to FAT32 in the FAT family of file systems. The exFAT file system is a new file system format that addresses the growing needs of mobile personal storage on different operating systems. The exFAT file system handles large files, such as those that are used for media storage, and it enables seamless interoperability between desktop computers and devices, such as portable media devices. Because of this functionality, you can easily copy files between the desktop and external devices or between the desktop and other operating systems.

After you download the file that is described in the "More Information" section, you will be able to format external media in the exFAT format. Additionally, you will be able to format external media that is larger than 32 GB, and exFAT-formatted media will be recognized on the computer. More improvements of the exFAT file system are described in the "More Information" section.
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The following files are available for download from the Microsoft Download Center:
Update for Windows XP Service Pack 2 and for Windows XP Service Pack 3, x86-based version
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Download
Download the WindowsXP-KB955704-x86-ENU.exe package now. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=1cbe3906-ddd1-4ca2-b727-c2dff5e30f61)
Update for Windows XP, x64-based version
Collapse this imageExpand this image
Download
Download the WindowsServer2003.WindowsXP-KB955704-x64-ENU.exe package now. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=6f69637b-41e6-4346-aa99-fcf802bd8bbd)
Update for Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 2, x86-based version
Collapse this imageExpand this image
Download
Download the WindowsServer2003-KB955704-x86-ENU.exe package now. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=94fad746-22de-4d89-aa9d-b54751261fab)
Update for Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 2, x64-based version
Collapse this imageExpand this image
Download
Download the WindowsServer2003.WindowsXP-KB955704-x64-ENU.exe package now. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=026d782d-a3ff-4c40-a1fa-f1e4f5ae01d3)
Update for Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 and for Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 2, ia64-bsed version
Collapse this imageExpand this image
Download
Download the WindowsServer2003-KB955704-ia64-ENU.exe package now. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2f03fffb-42b7-4a01-830f-18d77b73f87e)

For more information about how to download Microsoft support files, click the following article number to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
119591 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/119591/ ) How to obtain Microsoft support files from online services
Microsoft scanned this file for viruses. Microsoft used the most current virus-detection software that was available on the date that the file was posted. The file is stored on security-enhanced servers that help prevent any unauthorized changes to the file.
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More information
The exFAT file system incorporates several improvements over FAT32. However, it keeps the simplicity of FAT-based file systems. These improvements include the following key advances:

* Support for very large files and storage devices
* Support for performance improvements
* Support for extensibility features for future innovation
* Added compatibility for flash media

The exFAT file system driver brings file system support parity to the following operating systems:

* Windows Vista
* Windows XP
* Windows CE

The exFAT file system driver incorporates advanced structures for future scalability. The exFAT file system uses 64 bits to describe file size. This allows for applications that depend on very large files. The exFAT file system also allows for clusters as large as 32 MB, effectively enabling very large storage devices. Specifically, exFAT adds the following features:

* Support for volumes that are larger than 32 GB, the theoretical maximum volume size for FAT32 in Windows XP
o The theoretical maximum volume size is 64 ZB.
o The recommended maximum volume size is 512 TB.
* Support for files that are larger than 4 GB, the theoretical maximum file size for FAT32 in Windows XP
o The theoretical maximum file size is 64 ZB.
o The recommended maximum file size is 512 TB.

The exFAT file system driver incorporates the following advanced structures to improve performance:

* A cluster bitmap for fast allocation
* A per-file contiguous bit for fast file access
* Better contiguous on-disk layout (useful for recording movies)
* Support for Universal Coordinated Time (UTC) time stamps

The exFAT file system driver is designed for extensibility to enable the file system to keep pace with innovations in storage and changes in usage and to enable OEMs and ISVs to add extensions seamlessly. Specifically, exFAT adds the following features:

* Adds template-based metadata structures to enable custom extensions
* Enables implementations to persist these extensions without having to know their format

The exFAT file system driver adds increased compatibility with flash media. This includes the following capabilities:

* Alignment of file system metadata on optimal write boundaries of the device
* Alignment of the cluster heap on optimal write boundaries of the device


Update information for Windows XP Service Pack 3 systems


Important If you install this update on a computer that is running Multilingual User Interface (MUI), the user interface changes to English.

To resolve this problem, follow these steps:

1. Download the update for the language that you want to use by clicking the link earlier in this article.
2. Unpack the hotfix to a folder by using the /x command-line option. To do this, type the following command at a command prompt: WindowsXP-KB955704-v3-x86- LanguageCode.exe /x

Note LanguageCode represents the letters in the file name that indicate the language.
3. When you are prompted for a target folder, select the folder, and then click OK.
4. In the SP3QFE folder in the target folder, copy the following files to the %systemroot%\System32\Mui\ nnnn folder:
* ulib.dll
* ifsutil.dll
* format.com
* fmifs.dll
* uexfat.dll
* shell32.dll
Notes
* The SP3QFE folder contains the correct binaries for Service Pack 3 systems. For Service Pack 2 systems use folder SP2QFE as source, instead of SP3QFE.
* nnnn is a code that indicates the language. This code is the same as in the %systemroot%\System32\Mui\ nnnn folder.
5. Repeat these steps for any other language that you use on the computer.


I did not know that exFAT was now available for XP, thanks for that info!! Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
True, but under XP the limation is actually 32 GB , to be precise here:
XP doesn't apply in this case anyway.

FAT32 isn't a limitation.

upscaling fixes most remaining issues and even then they are temporary until the next die shrink that allows for more data for each chip leaving component cost as the last one and that is only a problem if the licensing costs are less than $2.00 per disc/movie which isn't likely...... middle men cost money and while payment schemes can be more flexible, the absolute cost of a flash component can still be minimised even further.

imagine walking into the local Blockbuster/bestbuy/whatever shop and buy a movie from them, they then behind the counter pull out a flash stick, download the movie to it with security encryption in place print a small label on the stick and voila you own the movie, have a nice day.

now it's down to getting local retailers to buy empty OEM flash so no excess inventory issues are niggling the process., this would end the practice of selling previously viewed movies, no more warehouses left filled with unsold discs in cases and while BlockBuster may not like it as much the industry makes more.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why doesn't XP apply?

If they distribute a future thumb drive ( say 50 GB to handle BR max. capacity of a single dual layer BR disc ) and format it with FAT32 and load it up with the full 50 GB worth of a long 3+ hour BR movie, then it is a problem with XP and it would be a limitation, because XP without that patch cannot have a USB Thumb drive volume size over 32 GB ( with FAT32 UNpatched ):

Quote:

The exFAT file system driver incorporates advanced structures for future scalability. The exFAT file system uses 64 bits to describe file size. This allows for applications that depend on very large files. The exFAT file system also allows for clusters as large as 32 MB, effectively enabling very large storage devices. Specifically, exFAT adds the following features:

* Support for volumes that are larger than 32 GB, the theoretical maximum volume size for FAT32 in Windows XP


So they would need to use the exFAT file format instead, which is designed for large capacity USB flash drives, and also can easily go above 32 GB.

With a FAT32 file system on a USB flash thumb drive, Windows XP users must have it patched with the info shades provided above already, that extends the max. partition/volume and file size of FAT32... but the end-user has to do that... its not an automatic update ( afaik ). So it theoretically could be an issue with unpatched XP machines if they decide to use FAT32 whilst distributing large BR media files on USB thumb drives. Of course they ( the Movie companies/Studios selling BR movies on USB thumb drives ) will bypass this problem completely by simply using exFAT which solves this problem immediately, they would be crazy not to use exFAT actually...
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why doesn't XP apply?
future USB/DVD/Blu-Ray players won't have XP as their OS, XP will only exist when USB "movie drives" are installed in a PC that is still using XP, 2nd XP is done Vista and Win7 are out.... MS would have to patch XP publicly which they have so it's a non issue or MS could walk away from XP which is what they want to do and simply motivate USB "movie drives" owners to upgrade.

3rdly for PC USB "movie Drives" could come equipped with their own proprietary video player software right on the flash stick, a mini OS if you will...... take up another 10 mb at most.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally - I think this is hardly an accomplishment.

What this still boils down to is that the movie is still being distributed via a medium... in this case, a memory stick with likely - far less capacity than a Blu-ray.

We should cheer when digital distribution is embraced.
Not now!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sauron_Daz wrote:
Original..the Uzi shaped USB drive..
I can see what drives the pr0n industry could come up with..Twisted Evil


Your search is over my friend:

http://www.dhgate.com/new-usb-sex-toys-sex-vibrator-sex-toys-for/p-ff80808122e4da6d0122e56c22d91e8d.html
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clone wrote:
Quote:
Why doesn't XP apply?
future USB/DVD/Blu-Ray players won't have XP as their OS, XP will only exist when USB "movie drives" are installed in a PC that is still using XP, 2nd XP is done Vista and Win7 are out.... MS would have to patch XP publicly which they have so it's a non issue or MS could walk away from XP which is what they want to do and simply motivate USB "movie drives" owners to upgrade.

3rdly for PC USB "movie Drives" could come equipped with their own proprietary video player software right on the flash stick, a mini OS if you will...... take up another 10 mb at most.


XP refuses to die though! Wink Lots of people still use and like XP and refuse to upgrade lol.... I see the point you are getting at here though... conceded... Very Happy
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